16 May 2013

Interesting Rationale.

As BCL has noted, Students Against Israeli Apartheid was stripped of it's status as an approved club at York University, though the reason seems more due to the disruptions caused by the group rather than the massage. Or it may be a convenient pretext. Who knows?

That said, and although we have our own significant concerns about the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli authorities in the West Bank and Gaza, this writer notes that the Israeli Apartheid groups seem to stray from legitimate and often well deserved criticism towards much darker territory which, despite the criticism I might receive for suggesting this, is anti-Semitic in nature. This isn't to say everyone, or even most, who support this movement hold anti-Semitic views, but the more this writer looks at the ideology of some of the key figures, the more this writer draws this as a conclusion.

17 comments:

Harry Abrams said...

Hateful Violence against Jews has not exactly been unknown at York U. But maybe the administration there finally has a handle on what to do. One especially obnoxious activist, an alumnus of York has been banned from campus as well. First the University of Manitoba, now York, who knows? Maybe it's a trend. As I've pointed out before, all these protests and racist bullshit do nothing to further the realization of an eventual Palestinian state alongside Israel. Indeed the current thinking is that it's several generations away at best.

http://www.shalomlife.com/news/4737/two-jewish-students-assaulted-in-york-university/

Anonymous said...

Really? Liberals are quite humorous. They can take an anti-racist stand when the other side are big mean old nazis. But when things are a bit more complicated they show their true colours and bankrupt politics. Also do a bit of research on your buddy Harry Abrams . You may be suprised (but maybe not).

Anonymous said...

Nos, I have been following the debate around IAW on ARC for a while now, and haven't been able to find the words to express my disappointment with ARC's position until now.

Perhaps the biggest issue I take is with the assertion that Israelis and Palestinians are equally to blame for the sad state of affairs in occupied Palestine. Palestinian territories ARE occupied territories, and the creation of the state of Israel DID displace hundreds of thousands of indigenous Palestinians from their homes. Add in a brutal military force that is equipped and heavily subsidized by the West, and you have the makings for a shocking display of brutality in the world's largest open air prison (which Palestine has been reduced to, and has been confirmed by org's such as the UN and Amnesty International).

I am no fan of extreme nationalism of any stripe, but it's worth noting that the current Hamas government in Gaza appeared because people in increasingly desperate times will turn to increasingly desperate political leanings (look at Greece and the Golden Dawn for an obvious example).

When you are dealing with an extremist, racist, imperialist opponent that attempts to take over ALL your land and then treat you like a second-class citizen to boot, what do you think will happen?

Again, I am no fan of Hamas, Hezbollah, or the Ayatollahs, but I think that much of the anti-Israeli government's problems on the international stage are entirely of its own making. IAW is just one such example of that.

Israel IS an apartheid state...the parallels between the way it operates and South Africa of 40 years ago are striking, and if the BDS movement against South Africa worked (and was supported by many countries, including a very right wing federal government in Canada), there is no reason to suspect one against Israel won't either.

IAW is above all else a PEACEFUL social movement calling for a PEACEFUL end of Israeli occupation of traditional Palestinian lands, but unfortunately, some individuals with different agendas do get involved and try to hijack if for other ends (witness the Aryan Guard participating in an anti-Israeli bombardment march in Calgary a few years back).

And yes, antisemitism is a plague that needs to be eradicated, and shamefully, we still have a long way to go on that front as well. But ARC's position seems increasingly on IAW seems to be dovetailing much more with what you'd expect to find on the pages of the National Post, and for that, this loyal reader is extremely disappointed.

Harry Abrams said...

IAW a peaceful social movement?
Good luck with that!

It's just more passive aggressive warfare that seeks to displace and/or exterminate Israel as the single majority Jewish country in the world. Full stop.

Everything else is just device. You can cut the crude distortions, disregard of historical fact, violent hypocrisy and blatant demonization with an 8 pound sledgehammer.

But ARC blog is educational. NOS allows anonymous posts and even the rants of vicious skinheads because people have to learn for themselves to discern fact from fiction.





Cowan Tenants said...

i'm finding it harder and harder to take ARC seriously as it's writers support apartheid and even go as far as to suggest that being against apartheid is somehow anti-semitic. i would charge that not only is it racist against palestinians to suggest that - as if it's anti-semitic for palestinians to have basic human rights and not live under apartheid - but it's also anti-semitic to suggest that. as if all jews think and feel as a monolith, and are inseparable from the zionist state and its militant, xenophobic ultra-nationalism.

i suppose stephen hawking is a horrible anti-semite too? and the countless jews of good conscious who also oppose apartheid.

this site still has useful info on boneheads and their activities in canada, and i can appreciat it's dedication in that dept. but this is clearly not an anti-racist forum. i propose changing the name to anti-nazi-pro-apartheid-canada.

Cowan Tenants said...

and seriously? you guys are linking to b'nai briths news site? they have a pretty thorough history of anti-arab racism, islamophobia, and unconditional defence of anything israel does. plus lots of mixing with kahanist, jdl, zio-fascist types. remember this one?

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=172351

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.ca/2009/11/stay-classy-bnai-brith.html

Anonymous said...

which "key figures" and why?

accusations of anti Semitism kind of warrant an explanation.

Nosferatu200 said...

To Cowan Tenants

"i'm finding it harder and harder to take ARC seriously"

You're breaking my heart.

"as it's writers"

No. THIS writer. I'm not speaking for the other members, but as I started the site, I get to provide a little commentary.

"support apartheid"

Bullshit. I've been very clear that I think the Israeli government should be called to the floor for the treatment of Palestinians. But apartheid has a specific meaning and it simply doesn't apply in this case.

"and even go as far as to suggest that being against apartheid is somehow anti-semitic."

I presume you are capable of reading, no? I've noted that the vast majority of those involved in this movement are NOT anti-Semites. I however strongly disagree with the characterization they have made regarding Israel.

"i would charge that not only is it racist against palestinians to suggest that - as if it's anti-semitic for palestinians to have basic human rights and not live under apartheid"

And the moment you can point out where I have written that Palestinians do not deserve to have their basic human rights respected I will agree with you. Go ahead and look. I'll wait.

"but it's also anti-semitic to suggest that. as if all jews think and feel as a monolith,"

And now you presume to put words in my mouth? No, I'm well aware that there are Jews who feel that Israel is an apartheid state. Many, such as Noam Chomsky, or people whom I have a profound respect for. I disagree with their assessment, however.

"and are inseparable from the zionist state and its militant, xenophobic ultra-nationalism."

But it's okay to paint Israeli's as a monolith? Gotcha.

Criticism of Israel is warranted, but as far as I know the country is comprised of 20% Arabs, most of whom are Muslims. Arab Israelis are members of the Knesset. They've been members of various cabinets and one served as president for a time. All Israelis are equal under the law. Is there discrimination and violation of these laws? Absolutely, but if Israeli is an apartheid state they are doing a really shitty job.

With regard to the West Bank and Gaza, yeah, if anyone could look at the lives of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and not be moved to speak out against the injustice, I would question that person's humanity. But do you combat that by delegitimizing Israel entirely or do you attack the specific policies? Ultimately the best solution is a two state solution and both sides need to be willing to make hard compromises.

"i suppose stephen hawking is a horrible anti-semite too? and the countless jews of good conscious who also oppose apartheid."

Holy hyperbolic temper-tantrum Batman! Do I need to spell out how ridiculous this is?

"this site still has useful info on boneheads and their activities in canada, and i can appreciat it's dedication in that dept. but this is clearly not an anti-racist forum. i propose changing the name to anti-nazi-pro-apartheid-canada."

It's a little long to put on a business card, don't you think?

Nosferatu200 said...

Hmmm, spelling errors.

Tip. Don't type while annoyed.

Nosferatu200 said...

Harry: "NOS allows anonymous posts and even the rants of vicious skinheads because people have to learn for themselves to discern fact from fiction."

To be fair, we only allow the comments made by boneheads which amuse us the most. We usually don't post what most of them have to say. And it should be noted that the people who we cover who claim to be skinheads are not skinheads. True skinhead culture isn't something that is disreputable. Boneheads, however, deserve all of the abuse that can be heaped upon them.

Harry Abrams said...

There are terrible problems in that part of the world, but the word "apartheid" simply does not honestly apply to Israel. And never will.

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/medicine-bridge-peace

At this time there are no less than 60 PALESTINIANS doing their medical internships at Hadassah hospital in Jerusalem. Also thousands of Palestinians receive medical treatment in Israel alongside everybody else....

And that's just one example.

Anonymous said...

I am disappointed by this post. The banning of SAIA is very much a racist endevour by Zionists (which is a racist ideology).

Anonymous said...

Hey liberals. Priorities: http://condemned84.wordpress.com/

We can all agree when you go after nazis. Your other politics pretty much just plain suck.

Anonymous said...

As I posted before.
I was a victim of south african apartheid. My wife is Israeli. Both view the use of collective punishment and policies of the israeli state as similar to those used in south africa during apartheid. The main writer of this blog (who is obviously a well meaning "liberal" undergraduate or new graduate judging by his style of writing) needs to wrap his head around this.

Harry Abrams said...

The Israel apartheid libel is completely a vicious and racist lie.

http://www.israelifrontline.com/2013/05/official-pa-daily-acknowledges-israels.html

Every day, Palestinian Arabs enter and leave Israel to receive medical treatment alongside Israelis.
And despite all of the problems, Palestinians intern in Israeli hospitals, gaining professional skills to take home. This means that they are also treating Israelis. The word apartheid means "SEPARATE." As in separated by race or ethnicity. The apartheid meme is nothing less than a vicious blood libel and racist slur.

124 said...

really guys? WHERES MY FUCKING COMMENT about how there is no way they could pull off an old-style apartheid as in south africa, I mentioned that and how racism has changed, from outright open racism and laws as in Jim crow south, to todays denied but still evident systematic discrimination against First nations. It made too much sense did it. I thought ARC was solid... you are cowards for not posting it

Nosferatu200 said...

We posted a lot of back and forth and decided that was enough for the readers to get a broad understanding of the issue. There were comments that we didn't publish that supported my position and comments that tore me apart. All were basically rehashing the same entrenched positions. After a while it's sort of like spinning your tires.

Call us cowards if you wish. You are certainly welcome to create your own blog and establish your own rules regarding posting.